I have little of either, but decided to waste the first. This chunk of leather has been sitting on my porch for a while, because that's where I store stuff --- please don't rob me. Anyway... pretty easy shit. Just takes a little time. It's no Pascal, but it'll hold my ass on. Maybe we'll bring the Riff Raff in for the next one... if I come into some money. Still needs a little work around the edges, but I needed it to dry out completely before I can sand the edge well... should be 100% by tomorrow.